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Post by nicolas on Feb 2, 2014 5:51:14 GMT -5
(here is a post i've made elsewhere, but it is worth to duplicate it here to extend chances to be seen by any interested adventurous breeder) I'm totally newby at breeding but why not trying something hard but very promising with Phaseolus polystachios (syn Dolichos polystachyus). As there is a bunch of talented persons here, it can be very interesting to discuss about it. I honestly dont know where i am going, but at least someone could benefit from discussion and findings that will be put in this thread. Goal is to get a perennial bean for USDA zone 7 or lower with decent yield or pod size. Obsviously i will start from Phaseolus polystachios hoping the seeds i just get will sprout and trying to cross it Here is the shared folder with relevant docs : drive.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw8kgMpvhLfqYjllSl9Wb1lPeUk&usp=drive_webAn interesting start is the phylogenic tree (that can be found in pdf or image in the shared folder), from which i paste the relevant sugroup here It seems that P. lunatus is a good candidate (maybe more interesting than P. coccineus that is more cold hardy but a more distant neighbor). The path will be long
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Post by agrorev on Feb 2, 2014 19:04:15 GMT -5
Great stuff Nicolas. Very exciting that P. lunatus x P. polystachios is successful 7% of the time. What a useful crop this could potentially be in the temperate zone. I'm getting ahead of myself imagining the polycultures already.
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Post by agrorev on Feb 13, 2014 23:12:36 GMT -5
In the HG perennial tetraploid watermelon thread Joseph recommends converting to tetraploid before crossing the two species, which seems to makes sense. Now to get enough polystachios seed to attempt to convert to tetraploid. Wouldn't be a bad idea to go ahead and attempt the tetraploid lunatus. According to the population map of the polystachios, I'm in the high density area, so its just a matter of finding a patch. I'm sure I've stepped right over it more than once.
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Post by nicolas on Feb 24, 2014 8:50:25 GMT -5
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Post by nicolas on Feb 24, 2014 12:32:09 GMT -5
agrorev i hope you'll find a huge path and get enough seeds to share with us poor Europeans
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Post by agrorev on Feb 25, 2014 14:42:28 GMT -5
I'll definitely be on the look out for them now and will share if Pachamama offers them to us.
Very interesting chart of interspecific relations. Nicolas are you going to attempt vulgaris x polystachios if your wild beans flower this year?
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Post by nicolas on Feb 26, 2014 3:04:06 GMT -5
Thanks,
for this year i dont know. It is not sure i'll get something flowering at all. Maybe i'll try to expand seeds of polystachios before testing any crosses ?
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Post by agrorev on Mar 1, 2014 10:55:18 GMT -5
That's seems a good idea. Since an interspecific cross may more easily succeed in the first year of the plant's life cycle or first flowering (according to Michurin of course ), I would try future crosses with the younger wild bean seedlings not the mother plants.
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Post by nicolas on Mar 1, 2014 11:23:45 GMT -5
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Post by wildseedvt on Mar 3, 2014 9:54:39 GMT -5
Any idea where to find seeds of mentioned perennial species?
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Post by nicolas on Mar 3, 2014 10:04:37 GMT -5
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Mar 6, 2014 6:46:04 GMT -5
Isn't runner bean more or less perennial in warmer climates? Would't it be easier to search for a more winter-hardy P. coccineus and then cross it with P. vulgaris? Those are much closer related and I think I've read about crosses between those 2 species in the past. Can't remember where thogh...
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Post by nicolas on Mar 6, 2014 6:53:28 GMT -5
Yes that is another way to breed. But neither coccineus or vulgaris are hardy enough, and vulgaris is annual, so i'm not sure it is a better bet
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Mar 6, 2014 7:02:51 GMT -5
And exactly how cold-hardy is P. polystachios? And with P. coccineus you directly have edibility, but how long will you have to select for a perennial 'X vulgachios' with the right edibility even if you have viable plants?
Are you trying for edible pods or just drying beans?
(And I suppose grafting isn't an option either?)
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Post by oxbowfarm on Mar 12, 2014 10:24:55 GMT -5
Actually, grafting might be a very interesting thing to attempt to get polystachios to flower. If you grafted a polystachios scion onto a vulgaris rootstock, it may induce flowering. This reportedly works well when grafting potato scions onto tomato rootstock. And you aren't doing any permanent damage to your mother polystachios plant.
I've never ever personally tried anything like this, it would be an interesting experiment though.
Edit. For some reason all the polystachios accessions in GRIN have been removed from availability.
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