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Post by nicolas on Mar 12, 2014 3:05:20 GMT -5
From a very interesting document posted on HG board : www.brassica.info/info/publications/guidewild/Guide_ed3_PART%20III_16July2009.pdfDiplotaxis tenuifolia can be sexually crossed with B. nigra, B. rapa and B. juncea. Reciprocal cross does not work. Maybe a way to obtain new perennial vegetable ? The paper relating these crosses is "Potential use of wild crucifer germplasm in oilseed Brassica breeding." by Salisbury, P.A. bu i cant find it.
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Post by robertb on Mar 12, 2014 5:29:32 GMT -5
The link doesn't seem to be working. It's an interesting idea; back-crossing biennial brassicas to wild cabbage, which is a short-lived perennial, might be another way. I suspect - can't prove it - that 19th Century seed merchants bred bienniality into varieties which were once perennial; it's been alleged, for instance, in the case of ragged jack kale. In which case it may not be so hard to breed it out again. I have seed of various varieties which apparently have low levels of perenniality, which I can get myself organisd to grow it out.
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Post by agrorev on Mar 18, 2014 10:28:45 GMT -5
Interesting document. This will be my first year growing D. tenuifolia. Would be cool to try the cross with the "Dragon's Tongue" red veined variety.
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Post by nicolas on Mar 18, 2014 10:39:52 GMT -5
Hehe we think the same way
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Post by agrorev on Mar 18, 2014 10:48:47 GMT -5
How long lived is D. tenuifolia, I wonder?
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Post by nicolas on Mar 18, 2014 14:44:34 GMT -5
Martin Crawford says it is longer lived on poor stony soils. I dont think it is short lived because it would be in his book.
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Mar 23, 2014 16:58:53 GMT -5
My oldest plant of D. tenuifolia (from seeds from a wild plant) is 4-5 years old now at least, and it looks quite healthy.
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Post by agrorev on Mar 23, 2014 17:14:59 GMT -5
Good to know, hortusbrambonii. I'm going to try to cross it this year with komatsuna and perhaps giant red mustard.
Looking at that doc. it seems like there are a lot of possibilities within brassica. For example, D. tenuifolia won't readily cross with Raphinus but since they will both cross with Eruca it might function as a bridge.
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Post by nicolas on Mar 24, 2014 4:37:16 GMT -5
A perennial radish ? Its great you'll try some cross pollination, i dont know if i'll get time or material to do the cross this year From another thread on HG :
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Post by nicolas on Mar 24, 2014 4:41:18 GMT -5
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Post by agrorev on Mar 24, 2014 8:39:07 GMT -5
The double dragon's tongue would be very beautiful matter how the genetics combine, I think. This year I'm growing out some B. rapa var. komatsuna "sharaku". Komatsuna seems like a good one if we're going for a more mild cross. Sharaku is said to be heat and cold tolerant and grow all year in mild climates.
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Mar 24, 2014 10:47:33 GMT -5
So what kind of perenniality are you looking for?
D. tenuifolia dies back yo the ground every winter and comes back from the roots in spring. The pereniallity of brassicas that you want seems to be more like a plant that stays alive above the ground, and does stay alive with stem and all after flowering, time after time. Will crossing with D. tenuifolia be able to provide that?
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Post by hortusbrambonii on Mar 24, 2014 10:54:40 GMT -5
The root system of D. tenuifolia seems to consist mostly of one long taproot that goes quite deep into the ground btw. It might be interesting as a dynamic accumulator then.
I think I do have some seeds (not in enormous amounts) of D. tenuifolia (from a mixed population of wild plants and some variety just called 'wild aragula) which are very tiny and easily to send.
Why anyone would use it for 'oilseed Brassica' is beyond me. The seeds are really really really tiny...
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Post by nicolas on Mar 24, 2014 15:16:29 GMT -5
I dont know if it is possible, but a "cut and come" plant that is perennial (even if it dies back in winter) and with bigger and milder leaves than perennial rocket would be great.
From the paper we know that is possible, but maybe it is quite hard, it should be interesting to find the original paper of the cross. I think this kind of cross has been tested to improve disease or climate resistance ?
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Post by agrorev on Mar 24, 2014 15:23:13 GMT -5
I am looking for the multi year perennially from the roots as in D. tenuifolia. This will be my first year growing it and komatsuna. I've heard the leaf and taste qualities of komatsuna are very high. For me I would say I am equally driven by curiosity as finding a practical result. I think a general goal is good, but In matters of hybridization, especially wider, determinism and predictability seem to be minimal and sometimes go completely out the window.
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