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Post by agrorev on Apr 15, 2014 21:53:52 GMT -5
Seems like a worthy project for temperate gardeners. Apparently some P. incarnata x edulis hybrids exist in the trade like 'Byron Beauty' and 'Tinalandia,' but I couldn't locate them. They are tetraploid, like those mentioned in the paper. hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/26/12/1541.full.pdf
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Post by starry on Apr 16, 2014 13:44:34 GMT -5
I'll be growing P. incarnata this year. If it grows well for me in my area then this sound like an interesting project to try down the road.
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Post by Graham on Apr 17, 2014 8:30:16 GMT -5
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Post by agrorev on Apr 20, 2014 16:48:08 GMT -5
I found two accounts online that indicate hybrid Passiflora 'Fata Confetto' as being enjoyed for its edible fruits in Italy. Hardiness listed at zone 8 or 7 sometimes. Fata Confetto is listed on one site as "Passiflora 'Guglielmo Betto' x P. incarnata?"), and Guglielmo Betto as Passiflora incarnata x P. tucumanensis. They are both from Maurizio Vecchia in Italy. I believe I read that they are tetraploids also. users.skynet.be/fioridipassione/English/hybrides.htmThis site is a good resource since they include fruit quality in their evaluation of various passiflora hybrids. They list Byron Bay as a tasty edible, but only sets fruit when pollinated by another tetraploid. Tinalandia is also listed as edible. 'Inspiration' a tetraploid incarnata x cincinnata cross is also said to be edible, and listed a lot of places as zone 7 hardy. I will grow Fata Confetto and Inspiration this year in addition to the incarnata. So with Byron Bay, Inspiration, and Fata Confetto you have 3 tetraploids with 4 different species represented, and all with incarnata (the cold hardy one) parentage and listed as tasty to some degree. That seems like a decent place to start with a small experimental breeding program.
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Post by nicolas on Apr 24, 2014 13:24:21 GMT -5
What is your hardiness zone agrorev ? It seems that these hybrids are for warm temperate zones, maybe zone 8 ?
I'll have to grow some P. incarnata some days ...
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Post by c2h6 on Oct 30, 2014 14:02:27 GMT -5
This is actually a project I've been working on. I have crossed P. incarnata with P. edulis and now am growing out the the F1 back cross to incarnata. I have been trying to find the biggest and best varieties of edulis and incarnata, as well other species that could contribute useful traits, such as P. tucumanensis, P. caerulea, P. vitifolia, P. miniata, P. stipulata, P. alata, P. phoenicia, and P. quadrangularis. I have some various hybrids that I have produced that I am working with, as well as some tetraploids that I have been able to obtain or make myself.
My F1 incarnata x edulis hybrid will be available soon from Brushwood Nursery in Georgia, US, working name 'Green Tiger' (initially it had fruits that were striped due to a form of variegation, but it seems to have lost it, thus invalidating its name in my eyes). It produces fruit if pollinated with P. incarnata, but the fruits typically only have a few seeds in them. The arils you do get are delicious, you just don't get much more than 5. I haven't been successful at back crossing it to edulis as of yet. It has large flowers (3.5 -4" or 10cm), and is very vigorous and floriferous. It's still diploid, so can be useful to making further diploid crosses. It also doesn't spread by roots like incarnata does; it's been in the ground for several years and is yet to put out any root sprouts. Hardiness is unknown.
I made an effort to find the biggest fruits I could find in central Florida, checking wild patches where ever I could find them. The biggest fruits I have found were about 75g, which is more than double the average weight of about 30g. There is a lot of variation in flavor and in aril color. The Florida varieties tend to have an unpleasant aftertaste, so I've been collecting varieties from further north which have been described by the collectors as having delicious fruit. Seeds I collected are available from the Passiflora Society International seed bank, look for 'Large Fruit Mix'.
My goal is to produce a large fruiting, delicious, self-fertile, hardy, colorful fruit. I've added P. vitifolia and P. miniata to the mix because they are not fed upon by gulf fritillary larvae; I have F1 seed with edulis and incarnata that I will be growing out next season. The added bonus is red flowers.
Let me know if you would like to collaborate!
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Post by nicolas on Nov 1, 2014 2:43:34 GMT -5
Very interesting work, thanks for sharing. If the cold hardiness could be improved it would be awesome
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Post by vkelman on Jan 5, 2019 22:37:17 GMT -5
The only Incarnata hybrid I found in US stores is www.brushwoodnursery.com/products/passiflora-iridescence by Hal Live. Any other varieties available in US? I live in Maryland, zone 7a; common Maypop vines grow like crazy here and bring a lot of fruit, but it would be great to have something tastier...
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Post by raphaelmaier on Jul 3, 2019 13:58:57 GMT -5
I am trying to work on the same project here in Germany. The goal is to have a beautiful, good flowering and winter hardy (-20C) Passiflora that bears a good yield of delicious fruits. So I am trying to work mainly with P. incarnata as it has several good traits.
My main problem here in Germany is that I don't have access to the huge gene pool of wild maypop in the US. So if anybody has an idea how to get more genetic diversity to start with it...
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Post by Rob on Dec 21, 2019 8:32:02 GMT -5
c2h6, I have been working with P. incarnata and have at least two superior-flavored fruit selections. One is a very heavy producer. I'd be quite interested in collaborating on a project to get edulis x incarnata, especially using the flavicarpa form of edulis. I'm in zone 6-7, in Virginia. Please seek out my e-mail and contact me via our business site: Botanique; we sell Sarracenia, Pitcher Plants. I won't list contact here, due to spambots. I have a large seed bank and collection of unusual fruits and vegetables, root crops. There's also some seed in the fridge (fresh) from two of the best selections: P. incarnata Bill Scholl's White x ( incarnata Bill Scholl's White x VA purple flowered).
Hope to hear from you!
Best Regards, Rob Sacilotto
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Post by Conrad on Feb 24, 2020 20:25:56 GMT -5
I live in Zone 7a (but really its 7b) in Maryland, I am also experimenting with maypop. The trick is finding another passiflora that has the same ploidy and chromosome number (edulis, among others fits that bill). Secondly doubling the ploidy number (making it a tetraploid) seems to effect the self-incompatability of most plants, which would increase fruit yields and decrease labor required for cross-pollination.
Alternatively it is possibly to modify the number of cotyledons in a plants seeds through successive artifical selection. By selecting for monocotyledonous seedlings, you would select for smaller seeds, without necessarily effecting the amount and sweetness of pulp. The fruits would stay the same size, but the seeds would shrink by a 1/3 to a 1/2.
If anyone does know of any good passiflora incarnata cultivars or hybrids available in the area I would be *very* interested.
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aj
Seed
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Post by aj on Oct 23, 2020 19:29:36 GMT -5
I am planning on some breeding experiments with Passiflora quadrangularis, the giant grenadilla which has the largest fruit of all the Passiflora. I live in zone 7 so I am hoping to combine the large fruit size with cold hardiness.
The first cross I plan to attempt is p. quadrangularis x P. incarnata, or the giant grenadilla crossed with Maypop. While I can find no record of a successful cross between these two species, I haven't found a clear reason why a cross wouldn't be possible aside from the different growing zones.
If I am unable to achieve a viable hybrid with that method my next attempt will be crossing P. quadrangularis with P. colvillii, which is itself a hybrid of P. incarnata and P. caerulea.
P. allardii is an existing hybrid (P. quadrangularis x P. caerulea) which seems to imply reasonable genetic compatibility, but lacks the specific qualities I am pursuing.
Does anyone have any suggestions or critiques of my plan?
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Post by vivid on Oct 27, 2020 14:25:04 GMT -5
I am planning on some breeding experiments with Passiflora quadrangularis, the giant grenadilla which has the largest fruit of all the Passiflora. I live in zone 7 so I am hoping to combine the large fruit size with cold hardiness. The first cross I plan to attempt is p. quadrangularis x P. incarnata, or the giant grenadilla crossed with Maypop. While I can find no record of a successful cross between these two species, I haven't found a clear reason why a cross wouldn't be possible aside from the different growing zones. If I am unable to achieve a viable hybrid with that method my next attempt will be crossing P. quadrangularis with P. colvillii, which is itself a hybrid of P. incarnata and P. caerulea. P. allardii is an existing hybrid (P. quadrangularis x P. caerulea) which seems to imply reasonable genetic compatibility, but lacks the specific qualities I am pursuing. Does anyone have any suggestions or critiques of my plan? Hi Aj, you have a similar plan to mine! I also want to breed P. Quad Here is a source on another forum that has a hybrid I was planning on breeding: tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=41093they're both tropical passifloras but supposedly improved in flavor. You may need to look into chromosomes and chemical doubling such as with oryzalin or Colchizine! I am definitely interested, I may message you or vice versa. Anyone else interested please speak up.
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aj
Seed
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Post by aj on Dec 20, 2020 10:39:10 GMT -5
I am planning on some breeding experiments with Passiflora quadrangularis, the giant grenadilla which has the largest fruit of all the Passiflora. I live in zone 7 so I am hoping to combine the large fruit size with cold hardiness. The first cross I plan to attempt is p. quadrangularis x P. incarnata, or the giant grenadilla crossed with Maypop. While I can find no record of a successful cross between these two species, I haven't found a clear reason why a cross wouldn't be possible aside from the different growing zones. If I am unable to achieve a viable hybrid with that method my next attempt will be crossing P. quadrangularis with P. colvillii, which is itself a hybrid of P. incarnata and P. caerulea. P. allardii is an existing hybrid (P. quadrangularis x P. caerulea) which seems to imply reasonable genetic compatibility, but lacks the specific qualities I am pursuing. Does anyone have any suggestions or critiques of my plan? Hi Aj, you have a similar plan to mine! I also want to breed P. Quad Here is a source on another forum that has a hybrid I was planning on breeding: tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=41093they're both tropical passifloras but supposedly improved in flavor. You may need to look into chromosomes and chemical doubling such as with oryzalin or Colchizine! I am definitely interested, I may message you or vice versa. Anyone else interested please speak up. Thanks vivid, from what I've been able to find, quadrangularis and incarnata have the same number of chromosomes, so I'm not sure of the value of doubling them. I've also heard those chemicals can be quite hazardous. I managed to find a record of a guy in Moscow who claimed to have successfully crossed the two but he lost the plant before he could do anything with it. The photo of the flower closely resembles Passiflora 'Elizabeth', which would make sense since quadrangularis and phoenicea are closely related. Maypop is native and grows like a weed here in Virginia, so I only have to cultivate the quadrangularis. Hopefully that will make things easier than in Moscow. In my last post I forgot to mention that allardii is sterile and that caerulea hybrids frequently create foul tasting fruit. Assuming I can create a successful F1 hybrid I will most likely the backcross it with incarnata. Looking at hybrids like 'Fata Confetto' this seems necessary to build in the cold hardiness. So the D2 would only be 25% quadrangularis, but I would still expect a reasonable increase in fruit size. One other factor is the square-stem nature of quadrangularis and if that is an adaptation to support the weight of the fruit. A hybrid that has the stems of Maypop but the fruit of quadrangularis would be an unfortunate situation.
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Post by vivid on Jan 6, 2021 0:51:51 GMT -5
Hi Aj, you have a similar plan to mine! I also want to breed P. Quad Here is a source on another forum that has a hybrid I was planning on breeding: tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=41093they're both tropical passifloras but supposedly improved in flavor. You may need to look into chromosomes and chemical doubling such as with oryzalin or Colchizine! I am definitely interested, I may message you or vice versa. Anyone else interested please speak up. Thanks vivid, from what I've been able to find, quadrangularis and incarnata have the same number of chromosomes, so I'm not sure of the value of doubling them. I've also heard those chemicals can be quite hazardous. I managed to find a record of a guy in Moscow who claimed to have successfully crossed the two but he lost the plant before he could do anything with it. The photo of the flower closely resembles Passiflora 'Elizabeth', which would make sense since quadrangularis and phoenicea are closely related. Maypop is native and grows like a weed here in Virginia, so I only have to cultivate the quadrangularis. Hopefully that will make things easier than in Moscow. In my last post I forgot to mention that allardii is sterile and that caerulea hybrids frequently create foul tasting fruit. Assuming I can create a successful F1 hybrid I will most likely the backcross it with incarnata. Looking at hybrids like 'Fata Confetto' this seems necessary to build in the cold hardiness. So the D2 would only be 25% quadrangularis, but I would still expect a reasonable increase in fruit size. One other factor is the square-stem nature of quadrangularis and if that is an adaptation to support the weight of the fruit. A hybrid that has the stems of Maypop but the fruit of quadrangularis would be an unfortunate situation. That's good on the chromosome bit. and yes those chemicals are dangerous, I was just mentioning them as reminder its not impossible but adds layers of difficulty. here is someone selling already selling an "improved" P. quad: Passiflora decaisneana (P. quadrangularis X P. alata) and Passiflora quadrangularis ML (P. quadrangularis X P. decaisneana) tropicalfruitforum.com/index.php?topic=41093.msg403915#msg403915I have seeds of a supposedly tasty, large maypop - I'd be willing to share. this nursery also offers what they claim is a superior maypop: peacefulheritage.com/product-category/native/passionfruit/I want to breed something with caerula with hopes of that amazing color and good fruit. From what I've heard ripe p. caerula isn't so much disgusting as it insipid or flavorless so hearing its hybrids are nasty is weird to me, I'd have to look into it. My idea is to breed one with a tacsonia sect variety passionfruit.
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