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Post by darrenabbey on Nov 20, 2014 14:19:37 GMT -5
I was mostly aiming for increased tuber mass. I figured if I came up with a plant that had an equal percentage of its material as tubers to JA, but also had the giant growth trait, it would produce much larger/more tuber mass. I'll definitely look for larger seed size along the way. Some JA plants seem to be very self-fertile (like those from Joseph in alanbishop.proboards.com/thread/6154/jerusalem-artichoke-true-seeds-trials). Using one that is generally not self-fertile made it MUCH easier to get crosses when I wanted to. It was similar to the male-sterile traits that are used by professional plant breeders.. I think in my example, the massive production of pollen from the "Russian Mammoth" were also key. I simply had to shake the head over all available JA flowers. With smaller flowers, one might need to do more detailed transfer with a paintbrush. On back-crossing: Yes, that is where back-crossing is best suited for. What confuses me is that people revert to back-crossing when there is no toxic/wild traits that need to be avoided. Recurrent back-crossing only works well when you're dealing with a dominant-selectable trait. With recessive traits, it is too easy to lose it in every cycle and the checks needed to make sure you still have the trait essentially double the number of years of work. |
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Post by starry on Nov 21, 2014 8:21:52 GMT -5
Hi Darren. The mid-atlantic plant research center blog (http://maprc.blogspot.ca/2013/08/gapland-gold-helianthus-hybrid.html), including your comments at the bottom, were part of my inspiration for starting this thread and project so I'm super happy that you are here contributing your knowledge/experience. Welcome!
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Post by darrenabbey on Nov 21, 2014 13:01:33 GMT -5
hah, nice!
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Post by darrenabbey on Dec 6, 2014 1:10:30 GMT -5
The one giant-scaled F1 hybrid (H. tuberosus x H. annuus "Russian Mammoth") produced one secondary tuber, along with a new stem starting to grow from the primary root crown. The smaller F1s did not produce tubers or obvious new stem growth. I've got all of the material stored in the fridge for winter. They could probably overwinter outside here in Minnesota, but I didn't want to risk losing them. The genetics of this cross indicate it is the F3s where most of the action is going to be ( the-biologist-is-in.blogspot.com/2014/10/genetics-in-sunflowers.html), so I'm willing to baby the early generations as much as needed. ((I don't have photos yet, but I will sometime in the next week.)) |
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Post by darrenabbey on Dec 15, 2014 14:17:27 GMT -5
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Post by starry on Jan 21, 2015 10:29:08 GMT -5
Wasn't a great year for working on this project. We are moving to a new property so I had to abandon my breeding plans but hope to focus more energy towards it in the next growing season.
Adding 3 new large seeded sunflower varieties into the mix for next year..'Skyscraper', 'Grey Stripe', and 'Standfast'.
Also acquired some hybrid seed from a fellow collaborator and a large bag of sunroot seed with mixed parentage from a trader.
Grew out a few seeds collected from 'Clearwater' sunroot in 2013 and now have those to add to the sunroot mix as well.
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Post by papabearjay on Feb 26, 2015 20:21:47 GMT -5
So, this evening I began work on a new project.
Specifically, this one.
Would anyone have any JA to pass along, or F1 that I can start with?
I'll post pictures later of the seed lot I'm starting with. It's H. annuus 'Autumn Beauty'.
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Post by darrenabbey on Feb 27, 2015 0:36:07 GMT -5
I tried to harvest seed from my F1s way too early and got none in the end. Right now I'm "experimenting" with how to get the two perennial structures I got from one F1 plant to survive the winter.
Once the weather turns warm in Minnesota, I should be able to dig up several JA tubers to share. They don't have a name, but they're a typical commercial sort that isn't self-fertile and has worked to produce viable hybrids with H. annuus already.
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Post by nicolas on Feb 27, 2015 2:31:13 GMT -5
I cant wait to see if any of the hybrid will repsrout this spring. I've other weird accessions to test for perenniality this year, and i hope to try my own hybridizations too.
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Post by darrenabbey on Feb 28, 2015 3:46:39 GMT -5
I cant wait to see if any of the hybrid will repsrout this spring. I've other weird accessions to test for perenniality this year, and i hope to try my own hybridizations too. My F1 material seems in good shape whenever I've checked on it. Can you better define "weird accessions"? I'm growing a batch of colored sunflowers this year, in part for making some further crosses to my JA (hoping to get to perennial colored sunflowers). What sorts of crosses and goals are you thinking of? |
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Post by nicolas on Mar 1, 2015 12:27:17 GMT -5
Weird accessions are H. annuus with more or less H. tuberosus blood in it. The initial interspecific cross could have been backcrossed or crossed with sunflower. There is no mention of any perenniality and the goals of the crosses are not known.
My goal is to have perennial sunflowers, with big seeds and not too big height. It could be splited in two main branches, with sunflower parent as snack type or oil type.
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Post by darrenabbey on Mar 1, 2015 22:51:31 GMT -5
Most of the crosses with JA that have been backcrossed to to H. annuus that I've read about were for transferring diseases resistance into commercial oilseed lines.
My F1s between JA and H. annuus "Russian Mammoth" were full of pretty large seeds. I didn't get any good measurements of the size, having harvested them at the wrong time, but it suggests some of the large-seed alleles from Ha are dominant. Using large-seeded versions with more typical size probably have some of the same alleles, so I don't see any reason you'd need to use one of the giant strains like I am.
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Post by nicolas on Mar 2, 2015 4:19:39 GMT -5
The big seeded cultivars are usually associated with tall height in nursery catalogs. I have yet to find a suitable sunflower with big seeds of snack type and not too tall, but i admit i have not searched deeply for it.
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Post by starry on Mar 2, 2015 14:36:37 GMT -5
I have JA seeds I can send you papabearjay. PM me your info if you are interseted.
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Post by darrenabbey on Mar 2, 2015 16:52:56 GMT -5
For making crosses with H. annuus, it seems helpful to have only a single clone of JA flowering nearby. The self-incompatibility shown by JA will generally prevent it from setting seed, leaving you with a higher confidence that seed will be produced from a cross with your sunflower of choice. This can easily be managed while growing lots of diverse JA by keeping the flowers of non-female parent JA plants cut back.
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